Friends, the German establishment is girding its loins in the wake of the AfD's blowout win in provincial elections. The "far right" party didn't achieve a majority, but it came amazingly close in a country with at least half a dozen viable parties. There's a good possibility, however, that all the other parties will come together to form a coalition that excludes the AfD, because...fascism!!! That might work in the short term, but can the powers-that-be in Europe ignore the people forever? We shall see.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cpd0113082eo
Dr. Waddy:I know nothing about today's German politics. Are the parties which oppose the AfD left or far left? Of course we in the US have experienced such overuse and misuse by our far left of the term fascist to reflexively condemn any person, organization, entity or doctrine which expresses or enacts any doubt of their unimpeachable wisdom and justice.The vast majority of "American" far leftists would be comically unable to define the term fascist and their use of it can usually be easily dismissed.
ReplyDeleteYet . . . in Germany, the place which in living memory manifested with unspeakable savagery the worst horrors contemplated by that doctrine: What does it mean in Germany; they know it best. That their left might cynically employ the term as does ours; is it possible? My understanding is that the AfD is a populist party; could a reasonable person see in their motivations comparison with those which gave rise to the Nazis and are their grievances and outrages as intense?Is there any element of Jew hatred in them? I'm guessing they are reacting in part against the imposition of the wokeism which infests Western civilization; the Nazis were very antiMarxist ( but so of course are all who realize marxism's essential evil).
What do Germany's neighbors think of this development ? Any positioning, be it ever so tenuous , of the name Germany and the term fascism in a modern setting probably inspires pangs of dread in many. What does Russia think of it? I would guess they already have long had serious concerns about a Nato geographically anchored by Germany .Might that factor cause them to persist in eliminating any possibility of Ukraine joining Nato and becoming an obligated ally of Germany(?).
I wasn't able to read the BBC article; I think I'll get out my copy of Hannah Arendt's The Origins of Totalitarianism, I'll look forward to more commentary from you or any other knowledgeable person and I'll do some other reading about modern German politics.
RAY TO JACK
DeleteThat's why you should watch the German TV (Movie) series (with English subtitles) titled "Generation War", if you have not already done so. Very well done, and I got the impression that the message of the series was that the Germans were also victims of World War 2, or an attempt was being made to present that idea in such form.
Dr. Waddy: My question about whether Germany today is experiencing outrages and grievances equal to those of the 20s and 30s is actually rhetorical. Of course they aren't in total going thru the intense dysfunction and disorder which was their lot then. But are there singular features today which have some similarity?Eg. are Muslim immigrants regarded with a hostility like that which plagued German Jews before the incomparable savagery of the Hitler''s all out assault on them? Or, do some Germans harbor thoughts of German ascension to a much more exalted status in Europe, even the world? Could a MAGA analog in a German setting manifest ominous implications?
ReplyDeleteMy cursory understanding leads me to guess is that AfD probably advances mostly creditable concerns and may pursue them in office with Trumpian resolve to Germany's good.
Dr. Waddy: Ok , from the reading I've done on line now I've gotten the following impressions: AfD is causing quite a tizzy out of concern that it has broken through a political "cordon sanitaire" which has obtained for a long time in post unification Germany. It is a barrier against the rise of a potentially ruling "far" right party in Germany erected both in Germany and in Western Europe. AfD 's breach was described by one German commentator as "neo-naziism". I don't know if that is responsible evaluation or disingenuous hyperbole to prevent the rise of a party which may well attack the fundamental interests of parties which have refused to address Germany's very serious immigration problems in ways faithful to very widespread German popular outrage.
ReplyDeletePresident Trump and VP Vance have both praised AfD and suggested that it can honor the unanswered concerns of perhaps a majority of Germans, much as MAGA has done for us.
I read a book entitled The Germans which purported to describe a German national character and how it originated . The author maintained that since the almost fantastic carnage of the 17th century 30 Years War, Germans' fundamental concern is their national security and that overrules all other considerations. Could this play a role in opposition to what so many Germans see as an immigration policy which encourages an invasion of peoples uninterested in becoming German which could eventually comprehensively undermine German culture? Germany's history would also, I think, show it to be a culture easily offended by the absurd impositions of wokeism.
History shows Germany to be a nation as extraordinarily dynamic as to be capable of concentrating very imposing power in pursuing its perceived best interests and present a still serious threat to the well being of its neighbors. How ominous might that threat be? AfD's leader is quoted as saying AfD now has a mandate to govern in the State of Anhalt - ?. A German commentator said today that what he means is Germany itself in the near future. How much might AfD's reforming zeal harness that proven German enthusiasm, work ethic and competence?
Dr. Waddy: It was Saxony - Anhalt and I believe the quote on "mandate to rule was from Saxony - Einhalt 's AfD Eberhart Alexander Gauland .
ReplyDeleteRay: THanx; I'll check that out.Supposing the German people in 1933had been given some miraculous prediction of the travails of Naziism but one lacking an account of Germany's final defeat. Would they still have embraced it, knowing the price they would have to pay for Naziism's expected benefit? Any neoNazi revival would have to be worked with the history of 1933 to 1950 very much in mind.
ReplyDeleteRAY TO JACK
DeletePlease do check that out, "Generation War" that is. I found it on Tubi. It has some graphic sex in it, at times, but it's mostly set on The Eastern front. It's worth watching, in my opinion, and I think you will enjoy watching it. Mostly, to me, it brings the Holocaust to mind, since it started in broad daylight in the Ukraine, where the Ukrainians ably assisted and collaborated with the SS/SD.
Dr. Waddy: The UK's departure from the increasingly far leftist bureaucratic EU , led by populist NIgel Farage , may well suggest the consequences for continued disdain by powers that be in Europe for ever burgeoning popular concerns like that for unworkable immigration policy.
ReplyDeleteRay: That part of Shirer's Rise and Fall of the Third Reich which described the depraved followup by the , I think they were called sonderkommandos , on the Wehrmacht's advance in Russia brought me close to actual nausea . The routine mass shooting and summary burial of those Russians condemned by Nazi doctrine was said to be so disturbing that it actually traumatized some SS.
ReplyDeleteUkraine was caught in a heart rending dilemma with the advent of the Nazi's. They had suffered the hellish oppression of Great Russian and ,to boot, Marxist domination in the 30s. Some of them were understandably moved to welcome a chance for revenge on Russians and I don't think Jews, Soviet commissars, gays or Roma had many friends among Ukrainians. If there is any justice in it Ukraine certainly eventually rued the day it ever regarded the Nazis as saviors. That mistake though, was motivated by the proven essential savagery of Marxists , suffered in any setting and any time.
Jack, the parties that oppose the AfD are...all the other parties in Germany. Thus the problem: the AfD can win all the elections it likes, but unless it wins a MAJORITY somewhere, it's unlikely to have any share of governance. This means, of course, that the AfD isn't just opposed by the Left. It's opposed by the Left as well as the entire centrist and "conservative" establishment...much like the Reform Party in the U.K. Are fears of fascism legitimate? I don't think so, but opinions differ.
ReplyDeleteGeneration War was excellent, as are many German historical miniseries, movies, and shows. And of course, yes, many Germans were "victims" of WWII, since it would be rather surprising if every single German were pure evil.
Oh yes, the AfD may have a "mandate to rule", courtesy of the voters, but what it doesn't have is the ability to rule without assistance from other parties. I don't necessarily see the "cordon sanitaire" keeping out the AfD as undemocratic, since, after all, the German electorate has a way of invalidating it.
You have to sympathize with those Ukrainians (and so many other ethnic groups) caught between the Nazis and the Stalinists. Talk about a "Sophie's choice"!!! But refusing to make a choice was dangerous in itself. Basically, all available choices were bad.
The gas chambers were, as I'm sure you both know, meant to spare squeamish Germans the "horrors" of killing Jews (and many others) directly, which they did, although, as you both also realize, there were innumerable Slavs handy who were quite comfortable killing Jews, et al.
Above I should have said the book The Germans held that since the 30 years war, Germans' salient determination has always been to maintain good order and national integrity within Germany. Jack
ReplyDeleteDr. Waddy: Thanx for the info on German politics. It is reasonable to think a movement truly deserving the term neonazi is unlikely to prevail in Germany. Can those European nations scalded by the Nazis ever be sure enough?
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