Friends, one look at these little girls is all it takes. You can tell that they're total monsters, mouths frothing with religious fanaticism. That's because they attend a...Christian school (ick!), which we all know is a sign of cultic lunacy and dangerous zealotry. That's why our federal courts are protecting us from this scourge by forbidding the expediture of public funds on religious schools. Well, if you've detected the note of sarcasm in my remarks thus far, it's because I find this line of thinking absolutely inane. Billions of federal dollars flow to religious institutions of higher education every year, and no one blinks an eye, but propose the diversion of even a small percentage of the funds earmarked for K-12 education to religious alternatives, and the "church and state" crowd starts howling! My view is simple: the moral and spiritual grounding that children receive should be up to parents, not the state. For most parents, a religious education is currently out of the question, because they can't afford it. Federal, state, and local tax dollars, on the other hand, are lavished on (public) schools that promote an ideology of "secular humanism", which has come to mean neo-Marxism. Government subsidizes the denigration of religion, in other words. If you ask me, progressivism has become, in effect, a religion, which offers a complete set of values and assumptions to its adherents, and which imbues them with a zealotry that any medieval flagellant would envy! Those are my two cents. What are yours?
P.S. I realize that Christians aren't a minority in this country, but Christians who take their Christianity at all seriously sure are!
RAY TO DR. WADDY
ReplyDeleteThe only Christians who take their religion seriously are Jehovah's Witnesses, and the JWs are considered a cult of heretics by other so-called Christians. But at least JWs have a unified theology, however unique, and you always get the same answers if you talk with them. Otherwise, all you get is a bunch of megachurches with conflicting views on just about everything, and no straight answers for the most part. In other words, most Christian churches are pretty much religious social clubs with dues and a pecking order.
What you get at must services at mainline Christian churches is a rock concert of CCM, and little ear tickling sermons with lots of sports metaphors. I'm not JW, but their website at JW.org is always informative. And best of all, JWs do not rely on any governments for anything, and are self sustaining.
No, I'm not a JW, nor do I plan to convert, and yes, they have flaws, but at least they take the Bible seriously, while most "Christian" denominations say they believe in it, they really don't, in my opinion, and I have been to lots and lots of churches.
Dilan to Ray:
DeleteTo my understanding what separates Christian Churches from pseudo-Christian Churches is their stance on the Nicene Creed. Which is the per-reformation agreement of the core tenants which define Christianity. Any Church which upholds the Nicene creed is technically a Christian Church.
The shear popularity of Christianity (which has me questioning Dr Waddy's categorization of it as a minority) is a double edged sword. Yes, it's good to have the Word out there and viewable to all people in the US particularly, I count my blessings for that. But at the same time, there will be some people going through the traditions of Christianity for all the wrong reasons. Those are the people that get the spotlight too. Not the business owners who operate their business based on principles of Christianity (I actually know a few), or the people who actually try to face every conflict and argument through the lens of Christianity.
Also with such popularity, it is perceived that Christians should have this strength that no people of other religions are expected to have. Someone makes a joke about your religion? Just laugh it off. If you cannot even enjoy a drink in a pub without someone complaining about your religion? Shrug it off, it's their right to do so.
JW's get respected by the left when criticized because it's seen as persecution. When in fact they a lot of times force families and friends to exile and excommunicate members if they walk away from their faith. I know a few people who were in a JW family prior to attending the church I'm a member of (Genesis Bible Church), and I used the word "were", because their said families will not talk to them at all via JW procedure.
Speaking of which, JW as an organization, separates themselves from Christianity. They deny The Nicene Creed, they teach that after their inception, only professed JW followers can go to heaven (even though they backtrack on this occasionally). This is why they mission to Christians of other denominations more than they do Atheists or Agnostics.
It's a unification through fear; if you don't agree with everything we say then you will lose your family, friends, and social reputation. Which is not liberating or healthy in any context.
RAY TO DR. WADDY
ReplyDeleteJWs aside, my favorite Christian Schools are the ones run by Lancaster Baptist Church in Lancaster, California, a K-12, and a college. The pastor and founder is Paul Chappell. My understanding is that they (the schools) are not sustained by any government funding.
Dr. Waddy from Jack: My understanding of the decision is that it leaves the issue nationally unresolved, as it applies in effect only to Oklahoma. So, I hope and trust it will be back in front of Scotus in good time. We must take full advantage of these times graced by a lawful Scotus with an impotent reflexively far left coterie. We've learned from the far left; just keep hammering away until the opposition crumbles.
ReplyDeleteI fully agree with your reasoning and your objective support of it above. Of course the far left and its dem factotums are loathe to see the essential role of Christianity in our civilization overtly incorporated into government. Today, it means denial of the unquestioning deference toward radical Islam necessarily embraced by the "American" far left for the old saw of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend." Plus, it means a rejection of the marxist leninist condemnation of conventional religion which is unthinkable for our "American" rump of marxist shills. But more than anything else, it means recognition of the essential role of JudaeoChristianity in our culture and polity which the far left affects to ignore because it puts the lie to their absurd presumption that the 1st Amendment forbids any JudaeoChristian influence in our polity and makes their hoped for totalitarian rule impossible. Of course their quasi religious fervor in advancing their beliefs manifest those bigoted intolerances which they attribute to conventional religion, as you pointed out and supported well. Bottom line: the U.S. is a Christian inspired nation and because of its devotion to a Christianity tempered by 2000 years of reform , all religions are herein welcome , unless they advocate destruction of America. We know this would not be so were the far left to take over; all freedom would be extinguished.
Again, given this Administration's firmly demonstrated full intent to end the far left's incipient envelopment of our national life and the Administration's recognition of education as being at the very heart of our civilization, this is a very propitious time to confront , at ALL LEVELS, the America hating radicals who have shown such determination to make our education system a gulag of indoctrination centers to prepare the young for life as obedient subjects.
On top of (also) working at Alfred State, I am a Youth Group leader at Genesis Bible Church.
ReplyDeleteOne practice I don't like seeing is parents forcing their kids to go to something like Youth Group, since in my experience people aren't that receptive to things they're not curious about.
At the same time, public schools' (somewhat recent, as I graduated public school in 2010, and remember being taught that both sides were kinda terrible to each other during the crusades, and now, the curriculum seems very one-sided) demonization of Christianity actually seems to make kids more curious about Christianity. For the first time in my service as a Youth Group leader, we're starting to see an even mix between public school and homeschool children in attendance.
RAY TO DILAN
DeleteThanks for your reaponse. No worries, I know the JWs are very controlling, and that is not for me!
With that said, may I ask where Genesis Bible Church is, plus your theology. Many churches are named "Bible Church" and reflect very different approaches to belief. I live in Kansas, and the one near me, is in "lock step" with John MacArthur's Grace Community Church in California. Another well known church in Broken, Arrow Oklahoma is Charismatic to the max and is home to the World of Faith Movement (Kenneth Hagin). Another, Duluth Bible Church in the Minnesota city of the same name is ultra-Free Grace. Then there are Open Bible Churches, with HQ in Iowa that are very conservative and fundamentalist.
Thanks.
Dilan to Ray:
DeleteIf I were to guess based on my experience attending other Churches, ours is somewhere in the Baptist lineage as far as theology. Maybe a little less strict.
Dilan to Ray:
DeleteDidn't realize until now that you were asking about physical location as well.
Genesis Bible Church (or at least the one named that which I go to) is in Scio, NY. Where Club Boomers restaurant used to be if you were originally from the area and remember that.
To Dilan, Ray and Dr. Waddy et Al from Jack: I was confirmed in the United Methodist Church in 7th grade (1959) but despite going through a well taught Confirmation class I was not mature enough to make such a significant commitment. My faith, such as it was, did not last very long.
ReplyDeleteToday I believe that the main tenets of the Christian religion are very plausible and I try to honor them in my behavior. Who am I to dismiss the guidance of people as great as St. John Paul II and Mother Theresa? But I cannot honestly claim Christian faith and what folly it would be to try to deceive the Creator of this unthinkably sublime and largely unknowable universe!
That said, I think Christianity has had a vital, essential effect on Western Civilization. Unless we defend it we stand to be subjugated by sometimes murderously intolerant doctrines and religions, sometimes united in their intention to destroy Western civilization. Marxism ,radical Islam and Jew hatred are prominent modern examples.
I worked in state prisons for 20 years. A Muslim chaplain in one of them told me:"what these people need is to fear God". Christianity , which I think teaches and exemplifies good reason to fear Him but also to seek His Grace, provides a solid foundation and a strong framework for a creditable civilization.
RAY TO JACK
DeleteAlso was confirmed in UMC, which split, and is now the UMC and The Global Methodist Church. The GMC is more like the UMC used to be.
Dilan to Jack:
DeleteI agree, many of the founding fathers of our country were either Christian or Deist. I think only one or two of them were of some variation of non-faith.
My family attended an Episcopal Church when I was a kid. The particular branch we went to wasn't child friendly at all and they didn't know how to handle me when I started growing up and having more mature questions over it. Which had me walking away from it.
I was an Atheist in my high school years and into early college. Explored a few churches while I was into college a bit until I settled on the one I go to now. Eventually I became a Christian (again?) and was baptized.
I feel that some degree of denominations okay as long as said people are believing and doing their best to live by the core tenants of Christianity, that's good enough. The small stuff doesn't matter much as long as they're not held of higher importance in someone's hearts than the core tenants.
Dr. Waddy, Ray and Dilan et al from Jack: I always counter the argument that that Muslim hostility to Christians which obtains today is justified by the Crusades with this view: the Crusades ended approximately 700 years ago. They began in the 11th century. Approximately 300 years before that occured the massive Muslim invasion of Western Europe from Spain , which was defeated at the Battle of Tours in central France. If one uses events 700 years ago to credit hostility today, then perhaps the Crusaders were understandably motivated by what had happened 300 years ago.
ReplyDeleteModern circumstances provide far more usable evidence with which to judge resentment of the West in the Middle East, I think.
Ray, that's a cynical take on "Christians", but I suppose it all depends on what your threshold is for "taking Christianity/the Bible seriously"... I once tripped over a Bible, so I reckon it's pretty much at the core of my belief system! (I jest, of course, but which part is the jest?)
ReplyDeleteIn my view, leftism and Christianity have one thing in common: more often than not, they amount, in practice, to a form of self-worship. Prove me wrong!
Dilan, thanks for the insights on Jehovah's Witnesses. I am totally ignorant of their beliefs and practices (except for the door-to-door bit), but I'm not surprised to learn that they apply a lot of pressure to their adherents to keep them in line. That's a turnoff, for sure, but on the other hand isn't that what any faith would do, if it took its own tenets seriously?
Jack, I wish there was a way to prove to leftists that their "creed" is no less "faith-based", i.e. subjective, than yours or mine. Alas, they just don't get it, and probably never will.
Dilan, I hear what you're saying about forcing one's children into church-affiliated youth groups. It's a double-edged sword. The Amish seem to have spectacular success in inculcating their values in the young. We might want to study their methods -- although we might not like some of them. The bottom line is that this is a very individualistic culture, and sustaining any religious tradition in that milieu is not easy.
Jack, you bring up the issue of whether the Christian faith is, practically speaking, efficacious in securing sound morals, social order, prosperity, liberty, etc etc. One could argue, as many have, that, regardless of whether any of its theological assertions are true, its real-world success and positive impact, at the individual level, at the community level, at the national level, and at the civilizational level, justify it as a "faith" and a culture. That's not a very inspiring, transcendent reason to be a Christian, but it's a reason.
Dr. Waddy from Jack: I'm trying to understand your comment on leftism and Christianity amounting at times to a form of self worship.
ReplyDeleteI think Christianity does advocate a large measure of personal responsibility to The Lord for each individual's well being, both here and above. The left appears to attribute one's deserved (but often unjustly unrealized or realized fortunes in this life) to born membership in an exalted or a proscribed group, all of which are by definition opposed to each other); that evaluation governed by unassailable doctrine which is, nonetheless, always subject to summary change at the hands of elite, enlightened rulers.
Does the principled life Christianity expects of its faithful manifest an attention amounting to a kind of worship, of oneself? I would suggest that the Christian belief in the sin of all humans is a very important motivation for redemptive behavior. Returning God 's probably inscrutable love is very often and with much doctrinal support, urged by Christian thinkers. But it can be hard to understand (eg. I had no choice in being born, and if my life is one of misfortune , how can I believe my ostensible creator loved me ).
But the doctrinaire left in practice requires that its subjects unquestioningly comply with its incidental wisdom and its vagaries because secular"Dear Leaders", owing no allegiance beyond that to a 19th century human dreamer, know best. And when it rules it enforces this with totalitarian force, ALWAYS, with putative but yet undefined "equality" as its justification. The individual (except for those more "equal" and thus more deserving ) is subsumed into this totality. To anyone still bold enough to think under such stricture, it must be obvious that individual behavior is of no consequence, (except when it very obviously resists the regime) and individual fortune is controlled by irrefutable factors dictated by an omnipotent elite.
One might argue that individual Christian conduct is motivated, yes, by fear of God but also by belief in his love. Pride is doctrinally abjured and self satisfaction at being righteous is counted a sin by Christianity. I think.
For the left, utterly compliant personal commitment is expected and in the perceived breach, is ruthlessly suppressed ("for you are a chap who dare to thwart the Revolution" - a sign on the wall of the cells in which perhaps 20% of Pol Pot's Cambodian subjects found themselves prior to their immolation ).Under Stalin not even his intimates could be confident that faith to him, expressed in unfailingly obsequious obediance , would save their hides.
Just my two cents; very interested as always in your explication of your view.
Dr. Waddy from Jack: I would suggest that recognition of the secular redeeming strengths of Christian faith may be a redeeming virtue. If we are burdened with original and further freely chosen undeniable guilt for sin , then may we not, even if we lack theological and philosophical sophistication, offer such support as we are capable of (i.e. decency toward all)? Such a conviction is far removed from the left's now amply demonstrated unforgiving excoriation and punishment of all in perceived opposition to its doctrinally proven wisdom.
ReplyDeleteDr. Waddy, Dilan, and all—thank you for your thoughtful insights!
ReplyDeleteDilan, the Nicene Creed beautifully captures Christianity’s foundation: Jesus as Lord and Savior. While it doesn’t detail daily discipleship, confessing “one Lord” calls us into a living relationship with Him. I’m grateful for your leadership at Genesis Bible Church and your role in guiding youth toward that truth—thank you.
Ray and Dr. Waddy, you rightly highlight how culture often reshapes Christianity into a political or moral framework, obscuring its Christ-centered heart.
Ray, one hallmark of a cult is its use of manipulation or coercion to control behavior. Dilan’s comments on the consequences within Jehovah’s Witnesses illustrate this well—how legalism can replace grace with fear.
Dr. Waddy, your critique of self-worship resonates, particularly within strains of Progressive Christianity that trade grace for self-atonement. I’d add that this isn’t just a distortion—it’s a doctrinal departure. True Christianity begins and ends with grace, not merit.
Though a personal relationship with Christ calls us to deny ourselves (Luke 9:23), believers still stumble daily. Whatever works may follow conversion, they are not a means to earn salvation, but an offering of gratitude to the One who gave Himself fully as our propitiation.
Dr. Waddy from Jack: You're up next. One thing is for sure; we wouldn't be having a free dialogue like that above in any far left country and that would include America should our sorely harassed radicals ever recover. But then, medieval Europe might well have been a chancy place in which to engage in such public doctrinal exchange. But that was then and this is now: post reformation , post enlightenment and much advantaged by a Christianity from which time, experience and evaluation have removed many of the rough edges. Neither marxism nor radical Islam can claim such redeeming reform in their shorter histories.
ReplyDeleteA very interesting theological discussion! What I meant by Christian "self-worship" is that, in practice, many Christians read the Bible and listen to their pastors/priests with critical eyes/ears, and what they permit themselves to see and hear is only what accords with their self-interest and personal proclivities. It's a mighty big Bible, after all, and Christians have been pouring over it for 2,000 years to find signs that God agrees with THEM and endorses whatever class system, ideology, or moral perversion happens to be fashionable at the time. When one subordinates the Christian message to one's personal morality and petty/selfish rationalizations, the message itself is lost. I maintain this is a VERY common phenomenon. Perhaps you all disagree?
ReplyDeleteHey Dr. Waddy, I'll bite and I agree. You’ve pointed out something very real. Many (especially in today's world) approach Scripture with a filter, embracing only what confirms to their preferences or comforts. This selective reading can easily become what you call “self-worship,” where God's Word is reshaped to serve self, rather than the self being the servant, to be shaped by God's Word.
ReplyDeleteBut maybe an even deeper danger is not just filtering the Bible to suit us, but believing that our filtered version, or our own moral performance, can somehow earn us favor with God. Scripture makes clear that “all have sinned” (Romans 3:23), and no amount of lifestyle alignment or selective obedience can bridge that gap.
The heart of the gospel is not moral alignment or theological correctness. it’s salvation by grace through faith in Christ alone (Ephesians 2:8–9). When that is lost, we risk turning Christianity into a self-improvement project rather than the redemptive rescue mission for depraved humanity that it truly is.
Would love to hear your thoughts on that distinction.
Couldn't agree more, Richie, and in fact I've never heard news that was "gooder"! If I had to earn my salvation by good works and general niceness, I'd be up the theological creek without a paddle. God's grace is my only hope. Of course, this still leaves plenty of questions unanswered about how we ought to live our lives, and treat one another, during our earthly sojourn. Step One, though, I think, is to believe in our hearts that God has the answers, and we don't!
ReplyDeleteDitto on the source of hope and the questions it leaves for our sojourn.
DeleteSincerely appreciate the "step one" perspective. A great foundation from which to work.